Grand Army Challenge II: Kings of War Edition

[ahrimen]

I have 10000 points with the normal force org. So there!

[Berserker]

So what do you guys need to get these points to 10k. Let me know!!

Time. I will definitely not have 10k points, especially since spring is coming so I'll likely want to do stuff outside instead of paint.

Also, some ogres riding cats, or rhinoxes. Those are some very pretty models!!

btw, good job Dan!

[boagrius]

Fritz I have tables please somebody take some tables I inherited several from toms. At least 3 4x6's

[Fritz]

Will do when I'm back in town Chris.

[ahrimen]

Still to paint, 50 night goblins. 10 spider riders. 20 black orcs. 5 trolls 5 wolf riders. A handful of goblin shamans. And a catapult. My army will be over 500 strong! I think it will be imparative that I can have multiple Command structures otherwise I will have to just take orc war bosses to lead all my mobs. At 115 points I could do it but.....

[Fritz]

I'm already planning for 2 full command structures based on the discussion thus far. Leadership bubbles and BSB re-rolls are not a guarantee on a normal table size (24" diameter for each on a 72" wide table), but double the table size, double the command structures makes sense to me. I'd be hesitant to go higher than that, but I'm happy to debate it.

I decided against using a formation in my army, but I'd still vote to allow someone to take a battlescroll formation. I'm still against End Times armies. I too have gotten a 10k list in with the normal force org requirements. Chris and Dan have weighed in. Any other thoughts?

[lilscutt]

Why would you be against end times things, if you take any of the characters from end timesband there points, like maleketh, ARCHAON, nagash you should use end time magic. You have so many spells that you can't use them all with 12 dice max. It just make for a blah magic phase, when the magic phase can be so much more. I would say use end time magic based on characters you bring to the table, and magic balances itself out in the end. Also I agree with the formations if you want to take one you should why not.

[Fritz]

I'm against the "Armies of the End Times" comp rules, which are clearly optional, from End Times: Archaon. Everything else End Times I'm happy to use. Khaine's Magic system was not well received here, so I'm just coming up with options. The reviews outside our group are not favorable either. It takes a phase that involved some decent strategy and turned it into just trying to ram through one or two spells. For the point level, we clearly need more dice for magic, but I don't think Khaine Magic is the answer. Frankly, it also gives me an unfair advantage in my mind. The Loremaster of Hoeth becomes broken as hell with Khaine Magic since he knows all 64 rulebook spells.

[boagrius]

I haven't read anything other than the first nagash book for rules. But that's kinda what I wanted to use. I plan on bringing tomb kings for sure. If I play standard tk I'll be a short game right after I lose my hierophant. By the way I painted my first 25 skeletons. They went through quickly and I'm happy with the results.

[Fritz]

Go for it. Undead Legions really helps out Tomb Kings with some of their more limiting design flaws (no marching, hierophant dying easily). Clayson and I are talking about some of the later stuff. End Times: Khaine introduced new magic rules that are highly controversial, far more random, and borderline overpowered for some casters. By the letter of the rules I "have" to use them in order to use the Host of the Eternity King elf list, but among friends we can do whatever the hell we want. In my opinion, it gives an unfair advantage to my army and does nothing but limit some armies. I take one character, and he knows all 64 rulebook spells. Dan, on the other hand, can't get anything beside Big and Little Waaaagh! End Times: Archaon basically brought us "Unbound" armies for Fantasy, but without the disadvantages that 40k has. I'd prefer to stick with official composition rules (remember they added this via errata): max 50% lords, max 50% heroes, min 25% core, max 50% special, max 25% rare.

[boagrius]

I'm good with the new army comp in the nagash book it allows me to use some of the stuff I really wanna see on the table including nagash.
What's the alternate rules for magic(12 dice max normal) a little more for that many points would be nice.

my list will be straight from tk and the nagash book so I don't care if we're not using the new unbound rules. And as far as your army being unbalanced I don't care I plan on losing in a most glorious fashion anyway. Unless the dice gods love me and hate you that day.

[Fritz]

We're talking about just straight adding dice. 4D6 is probably enough, but again, I'm open to debate. The Khaine magic rules use 4D6, but they also make every caster know all the spells of their given lore (in other words everyone is a loremaster), they add "End Times Spells" which cannot be dispelled, power and dispel dice usage has a random cap (roll a D6 each time you are about to use dice and that's the max number you an use), and you can cast the same spell(s) as many times as you want so long as you don't fail to cast them (dispel is not a failed casting attempt) and the casting value is below 15+.

[boagrius]

Yeah that sounds a little overpowered. I Like the 4d6 that sounds fair to me.

[ahrimen]

I would prefer 1 supreme commander and say 2 other leaders 1 for every 5000 points(it's still only 1 per 3333pts. A big game in its own right). The subordinates could only affect their troops , but the supreme commander can help anyone. . This would also help with tombkings having say 1 supreme hirophant and 2 lower. Also any thoughts to making the table deeper not just wider?

[Fritz]

Deeper might be feasible. It would probably have to be three boards, with the 6 foot sections used as the width. That would give you a 2 foot deployment zone if the armies are arrayed the usual 2 feet apart. Total board space would be 12' by 6'

How is this for leadership: two Commanders and one Warlord. The commanders follow normal rules for generals. Each commander may also have one BSB associated with them. The Warlord adds 6" to his/her normal leadership bubble. That gives you 2 BSBs and 3 leadership buffs with a total diameter of 84". The reason being is I have the models for as many generals as needed. Currently, however, I only have two BSBs. I would prefer not to have to model another just for this game. I'm thinking victory points would be as such:

+2 per capture point (five total points evenly spaced at the center line of the battlefield)
+1 per enemy Commander killed
+1 per enemy BSB killed
+2 for killing the enemy Warlord

That makes it 10 total possible from capture points, and 6 (per side) possible from killing certain important characters.

I don't think we need to worry about a commander only being able to effect one sub-group. You're most likely going to be spreading everything out as to not matter anyway.