Mathhammer

[MorGrendel]

Fritz mentioned that he built a tournament list, which immediately made me think of Mathhammer. I have nothing against mathhammer, persay, and actually wish the writers of the books did a little bit before releasing books. That said, please tell me if my mathhammer is wrong:

60 clan rats with spears deployed as a horde against 3 ogres. 8 wide x 4 ranks = 32 attacks. Hit on 4's, 32 x .5 = 16 hits. Wound on 5's, 16 x .33 = 5.28 wounds. Ogre save on 5's, 5.28 x .66 = 3.48 wounds

2 ogres, 6 attacks 6 x .50 = 3. Wounds on 3's, 3 x .66 = 1.98. Skaven save on 6's (5's -1), 1.98 x .835 = 1.65 wounds. Plus 2 stomps (auto hit). Wounds on 3's, 2 x .66 = 1.32. Skaven save on 6's (5's -1), 1.98 x .835 = 1.10 wounds. Plus impacts if they charged, and we might assume they did since the Skaven got all of their attacks. Impacts are same as Stomps, 1.10 wounds.

So 2 Ogres out wound 60 Clanrats. Is it really that bad? Are they really that anemic?

Part of the reason I wanted to play Skaven was to have hordes and hordes of models, but what chance do they have against the "deathstars" I'm seeing when 60 rats lose to 3 ogres. (I know I get rank bonus, but I'm also not usualy facing only 2 ogres)

I don't mean to complain, I just didn't want to be like everyother player and take 2 WLC, 2 Hellpits, and a ton of magic.

[Fritz]

Your math is 100% on. However, you have to keep in mind, as I did with the High Elf list, is that things rarely can be taken in isolation. I rather dislake mathhammer for the simple reason that it's always done in isolation, with everything one on one, no shooting, no flanking, no magic. You can take magic without going overboard. You can take shooting without going overboard. In fact trying to play Skaven without those thing is really not very Skaveny to me.

I was about to suggest you try the Lore of Shadow because you'd get a lot of the same benefits from it as my High Elf list, but yeah, you can't use it. Stupid Skaven magic. I'll toy around with the Skaven list and see what I can come up with for a more combat oriented list.

[Fritz]

Well here's a list without hellpits or WLCs. I think it could be fun. Tons of models and plenty of units. It's all about wearing things down with the large units of clanrats and slaves.

Greyseer
-4+ Ward Save thing from the rulebook

Chieftain
-BSB, Halberd, Glittering Scales

3x Chieftains
-Halberds

3x 50 Clanrats
-Spears, Full Command

29 Stormvermin
-Full Command, Razor Standard

2x 6 Rat Ogres
-4 Handlers

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMWHEEL

The three super cheap Chieftains (seriously these guys are 47 points?!) go in the clanrat units to slightly bolster their combat effectiveness. 3 WS5 S3 attacks ain't a bad boost for 47 points. Keep them on the edge of their units so they don't take many attacks back. These guys and the slaves can be used as either hordes or tarpits depending on what the situation calls for. I would recommend mostly using them as unbreakable tarpits. Fuck hordes. Killing shit is for real men...err...ratmen...

Now for the hammers. The Greyseer and the BSB Chieftain go in the Stormvermin unit. I think the Stormvermin have the potential to be rather nasty. Assuming a 6x5 formation, the BSB Chieftain will be dishing out 3 S5 attacks at a -3 armor save and the rest of the unit will bring 12 S4 attacks with a -2 save. Not bad for only 273 points. These guys and the Rat Ogres are your main hitters. You've got so many units of clanrats and slaves that you should be able to use these guys as flankers SOMEWHERE. They won't, however, do that well on their own. The Rat Ogres lack the rank bonus and the Stormvermin die just as easy as a clanrat. What they will do is kill stupid amounts of models. If you can get them into the same combat as a clanrat/slave unit, you're set. No one is going to have as many ranks as your clanrats, and your Rat Ogres and Stormvermin will just murder things.

Oh, and the Doomwheel is for the lulz.