Galatia Forums

Veterans don't communicate, or at least, not with words. You might get a left, right, or a rally, but when it matters - when you need to steal the initiative - they go silent.

Why is that?

They are hunting.

Let's take a moment and play a game. Answer the following; what does it mean when:
A commander has a hand straight up in the air?
A commander has a hand in the air, rotating it in a circle?
A commander has a hand, thumb up, out from the body at shoulder height?
A commander has a hand palm down, hip height?
A commander is pumping his/her weapon in the air?

What does it mean when:
You are tapped on the back?
Tapped on the bicep?
Tapped/pressed on the top of the shoulder?
Tapped on the top of the weapon?
Tapped on the bottom of the weapon?

I am playing:
A commander has a hand straight up in the air?
Halt or Freeze, whether the hand is open or closed.
A commander has a hand in the air, rotating it in a circle?
Assemble
A commander has a hand, thumb up, out from the body at shoulder height?
No Clue
A commander has a hand palm down, hip height?
No Clue
A commander is pumping his/her weapon in the air?
No Clue

What does it mean when:
You are tapped on the back?
Get out of the way, I am coming up to fight
Tapped on the bicep?
Move over so I can spear something
Tapped/pressed on the top of the shoulder?
Yes that is me trying to get you to move out of the way
Tapped on the top of the weapon?
Get that thing out of the way
Tapped on the bottom of the weapon?
Put that up before you get show with an arrow. Sword blades are great for blocking arrows.

I think if you want to give non-verbal commands, then you need to come up with a practical list and practice it. I'm with Titus that I don't know what most of those signs mean that you mentioned (or I would interpret them differently at the least), nor do I think I would look for any of them on the battlefield. It's quite unrealistic as you can't use your fingers in gauntlets, and depending on what weapon you wield, you won't be able to make many of those signals. Even if we had realistic motions, I doubt I would notice them once combat started. After all, when does your pointing spear mean charge versus I'm trying to stab a guy in the face?

I think verbal commands work better because I'm not going to be looking at your body while I fight. I'm too busy. Everyone is. Even with verbal you often don't hear it half the time if you're in the middle of combat.

I agree, and without the context of battle, some of theses might not make sense, because they are things you do naturally. In the din of battle you can not hear well, so you need to be able to pick up on visual cues. I don't think we have anything codified, so I wanted to see where your experiences took you. More of litmus test than a quiz. I get the thumb thing, I debated using palm instead to depict hand orientation. The hand is clearly extended away from the body in a wAy that looks non-fighting.

To answer what does it mean when:
A commander has a hand straight up in the air?
- Form up here, verbal: "To me"
- Why is this important now: With a glut of new fighters, commanders need to actively position troops so we don't end up with spots devoid of leadership. Too many greenswords on an edge and the enemy surrounds you, too many greenswords in the center and the line shatters. We integrate the tribes well, but I feel we tend to create pockets of inexperience. This causes the rapid collapse of areas and leaves our vital points exposed - no one has run a zipper on us yet, but I been collided into by an escaping Boggie more than I care for. Perhaps, we should form up with our own tribes, gauge experience levels, and then balance the line. In that process, we can identify weakness and assign commanders to shore up things.

A commander has a hand in the air, rotating it in a circle?
- Turn 180, look for trouble, verbal: "Turn around"
- Why is this important now: Winning a fight is about maintaining momentum. Sometimes you hunt down an enemy to the bitter end, but most of the time it is better to leave a scattered enemy to the rout and regroup and select a new target.

A commander has a hand, thumb up, out from the body at shoulder height?
- Go there with speed, verbal: "Move." (This is not a charge)
- Why is this important now: Generally, this is pointed at a specific unit or a seam between two units. Time is of the essence, but this is not to be rushed - hit as a unit not as individuals.

A commander has a hand palm down, hip height?
- Slow down, form a line, Verbal: "Slow." (This is not stop)
- Why is this important now:
Much like above, you want to flow across the battle field, and so sometimes you must slow the line so that enemy front passes you by and exposes the supple flank.

A commander is pumping his/her weapon in the air?
- Attention! To me quickly, Verbal: Rally! (But this might also be to get us to a single point when we are scattered, say, in the woods.)
- Why is this important now: Our rallies are slow. Half the unit forms up, half seems stuck in the mud, I can't really explain it. Speed kills, and slowness is death. Rally and resurrect quickly, rest once you are back in the line.

Let's finish this up with the interpersonal nonverbal communication.
Obviously, you should be aware of the plan, and when the plan changes on the battlefield; but every moment matters, so be mindful of those around you and support them. You need to be able to feel your way in the line and anticipate what those around you are thinking. Look out for each other, work together, and create repeated 2 on 1 situations.

What does it mean when:
You are tapped on the back?
- Swap out or moving up from behind you so don't throw a shot.

Tapped on the bicep?
- Give me room, move over

Tapped/pressed on the top of the shoulder?
- Getting your attention, e.g. Archer on the left/right, don't get shot - generally, from behind and spoken

Tapped on the top of the weapon?
- Getting your attention, e.g. Target on the left/right, throw a shot there - weapon point at target.

Tapped on the bottom of the weapon?
- Switch positions - generally, tapper stays forward, the tappee moves behind. Protect each other, create opportunities

Not to ignore Jason's contribution
- what hand sign would you see for Stop?
- what hand sign would you see for Go! Go! Go!

Press?
Flank?
Slow down?
Others?

I'm willing to practice these non-verbal cues. But also, we need to make sure they are ported to all weapon types we use (e.g. a swordman is not going to sheath his sword to use his palm to signal). Maybe we can change the signals to be always done with weapons, so a glaiveman doesn't need to take a hand off his weapon to signal leaving him open to being hit, or off balance.

Also, if we do practice them, we need to all practice both as leaders and followers since we don't actually have one leader that we follow, but instead we all tend to lead as needed on the battlefield.

Really, I see this less of instructions from leader to troops, and more of a communication between the troops. At least for our group.

Titus wrote:I am playing:
A commander has a hand straight up in the air?
Halt or Freeze, whether the hand is open or closed.
A commander has a hand in the air, rotating it in a circle?
Assemble

If you're intent on defining hand signals, these two are pretty much mandatory. The hand and arm signals for Halt and Rally/Assemble, plus Double Time and Quick Time are hardwired into myself, Jason, Charles, and probably Cook. There is no changing them, especially for those of us still on active duty.

Fritz and Jason are correct. Hand signals are pretty much universal with specific variations within a unit for more complex communication that only the unit would understand.

Ex. Hand up = halt
Hand up spinning = rally to me
Hand up spinning then pointing to a location or spot on ground = rally on that point.

Unit specific
Point to both eyes = look for.
Point to one eye = spotted.

Some of these would work for us but like serban said it's hard to look and see. However before the initial contact to add a unknown factor when we're walking hand signals could be used effectively.

I'm cool with being wrong, just getting a conversation started. Obviously, a gauntleted hand creates some obfuscation.

Or a gauntlet hand holding a sword.

Military folk, what do you all do when you need to convey instructions but can't let go of your weapon?

I also was thinking on this from a "natural" point of view. So a commander as it were, is more of a leader of a fire team (3-6 people) not the entire unit. This team is generally near to or in the thick of combat and the commander needs to be able to get their charges to move and move fast/slow to a specific point.

Is there a consistent way to do this without said commander running off first?

Bo mentioned, "Hand up spinning then pointing to a location or spot on ground = rally on that point." Could that also double for a charge?

Hand signals will not work for me. I fight blind. No glasses. I can make out shoulder movements, bodies, heads and when people move. but in a closed helmet with no glasses I can't see what you are doing with your hand if you are next to me. I think barking a command and then following through with it is more effective for what we do.

This is not to exclude a verbal command, but rather to add to it.

As stated above:
A commander has a hand straight up in the air?
- Form up here, verbal: "To me"

However, now I'd like to remove any mixed messages.

Revised:
A commander has a hand straight up in the air?
- Slow down to stop, verbal: "Slow"