Lizardmen tease

[Fritz]

They're coming Jeff...
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/b ... d=10200002

Edit: and of course the obligatory White Dwarf leak:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... 41384.page

I'm not sure I like the new carnosaur (need a better quality pic), but the rest looks fun. Lots of dinosaurs!

[MorGrendel]

Thanks Fritz.

Yeah and Uhhh.
Hopefully, there is more than that. Other than the fat dumb looking one from "A Land Before Time" I already have/converted those models. Not saying I won't by another/more Carni/Trog or Terra/Rippers, but nothing really different or driven to be the centerpeice of a new army.

Given the amphibious/evolved nature of the army, is it really so hard to believe that a weapon can be graphed into a beast? How can the enemy fear a weapon that looks like it is a sneeze away from falling off.

Not a lot of saurus love either. However, a Skink High Mage might be interesting. A lvl 4 skink mage with 100 points of magic whould make for a possible all skink army. Of course, now that I play skaven, I probably will play less all skink armies. Tecoeko was my favorite character until 8th, wherein he miscast evey turn.

Given all the Krox sculpts out there, they should write rules for types of kroxes and then rerelease the old sculpts.

I really wanted a big flying monster, so I can't help but be dissapointed. Also, a Terradon carrier whould have been cool, it would have made any battle be a straight up Hoth fight. And if you are going to make a fat short anklosaurs model, make him huge and use him to deny flanks with tons of armor and wounds.

Finally, God I hate the GW teasers. :)

[Berserker]

I just got around to looking at the new lizardman models online and they are beautiful!! My favorite is the carnosaur. It looks fantastic!

[MorGrendel]

So I've read through the new book, and here are my first impressions:

First, Meh.
More of the same. I already had a Carnosaur, I’m not sure I needed the Skinkier cousin. Similar thought with the Ripperdactyls, already had Terradons at a comparable price point. EoG without a character. I don’t know if that is even a good idea, but worse I can’t seem to feel anything.

Second, Scaly skin is back, knuckle head!
Lizards are tougher and slower-witted. I’m not sure why the army took a LD hit, but I’ve never worried about LD before, so perhaps it’s necessary evil to balance the army. The improved AS makes skinks hordes more interesting, but the low LD monsters has me a bit concerned.

Third, Pointing and options.
Generally, there were point drops all around, but nothing that makes anything more viable except maybe the Razordon (but I still have reservations). At first, I was bummed by the lack of new choices, but upon closer examination, I gained a lot of common enhancements that many other armies already had. The most remarkable of these is a Skink BSB, making an all skink list viable. Previously, I sacked the BSB because I just could not afford it and build the list I wanted. Now I can slap a Skink BRB on a Ripperdactyl – Flying Cav army, Woot! The standardization of the Command Group now makes champions viable again.

Fourth, Missed opportunities.
Bloat Toad is a great new rule and gives a lot of flavor to the Ripperdactyls. I wish they had tapped this some more. Imagine Chameleon Skinks that use the croak of a frog or the click of a jungle roach to echolocate a foe; or the musk of a Troglodon as a lure. I think the roars on the Trog and Carn should have been switched.

Magically, Slann can swap spells with other Slann, but that is unlikely ever to happen because it is just too many points. No Lore of the Old Ones. I really think geomancy/terrain changing would be cool. Disciplines are good, but very HE. Either I get Loremaster of High Magic or all the Signature Spells. No Loremaster of the basic eight, which I think is a real loss as it makes LZ and HE too similar. Unfathomable Presence is a waste. For the same points I can have MR(2) all the time. The fact that the Oracle is not actually a caster, and has to pay to channel seems weak.

Fifth, Synergies.
I’ll have to experiment here, but at a glance LZ have access to a number of ways to increase their Initiative, their biggest weakness. Skinks now have access to Beast, so I can see a little Wildform spam. Boosted Ripperdactyls, I’m smiling. S6 T5 skinks, makes me giggle uncontrollably.

Sixth, Gentle nerfing.
I saw this coming, but they cleaned house on the magic items. The new ones are OK, but really rather blah. No real Slann magic item which I think is unfortunate, and I think a laser mounted floating palanquin would have been awesome. And I’ll never take the Skavenpelt Banner, why would I pay 65 points so my opponent has Hatred. Egg of Quango seems like a no brainer if you are taking a skink horde. Here’s the good news, no one will be complaining on the interwebs about these items.

Well, that was longer than I expected.

[Fritz]

That's pretty much the same opinion I've been reading. Cube of Darkness has been getting some whine, but that's about it.

[MorGrendel]

Cube of Darkness, really? It used to dispel and end the magic phase. Now it just dispels and removes all the remains in play spells from one unit. I think that is a significantly weaker item. Moreover, it's more expensive than a scroll, so I'm not sure that I'd take it over a scroll, especially since I'm not much for scrolls anyway and my LZ army will probably be channeling 5-6 dispel dice.

[Fritz]

Cube of Darkness, really? It used to dispel and end the magic phase. Now it just dispels and removes all the remains in play spells from one unit. I think that is a significantly weaker item. Moreover, it's more expensive than a scroll, so I'm not sure that I'd take it over a scroll, especially since I'm not much for scrolls anyway and my LZ army will probably be channeling 5-6 dispel dice.

The whine is about essentially having access to two dispel scrolls, not necessarily the cube itself. I didn't say it was justifiable whine. I just said there was some whine.

I'll never understand why you're not one for scrolls. I've had too many game changing spells determine the outcome of a game not to take one. If I had access to two, you better believe I'd take both. Don't make me pull shadow magic back out to show you why.

[MorGrendel]

Yeah, I didn't think it was you whining.

Though you are right, I guess I've never really felt you can consistantly win WH with a defensive stategy. I'd rather put the 25 points towards a Dooooooooomrocket! And I seem to always have extra Dispel dice. The only wizards I really fear are the stupid little Night Goblin wizards, with their cheap spells and the extra die per casting and the dice stealing. I think for the points they are the best casters in the game. And Scrolling a NGW spell, just makes me feel dirty and weak.

[Fritz]

Yeah, I didn't think it was you whining.

Though you are right, I guess I've never really felt you can consistantly win WH with a defensive stategy. I'd rather put the 25 points towards a Dooooooooomrocket! And I seem to always have extra Dispel dice. The only wizards I really fear are the stupid little Night Goblin wizards, with their cheap spells and the extra die per casting and the dice stealing. I think for the points they are the best casters in the game. And Scrolling a NGW spell, just makes me feel dirty and weak.

That's it. Shadow is coming back out to play.

[MorGrendel]

Well, since that's all I saw before your new book came out. . . So Phhhttt :P to your threat.

[MorGrendel]

It appears they call Bastildons, "pokimons" in Spain. That is all.

[Fritz]

I'm sorry, you were saying something about reptiles? I was distracted by the giant ball of radiant light that is the new space marine codex. Oh 40k, why do you keep trying to get me to play you? Only Jason plays me and I always lose...

[MorGrendel]

D' Oh! I played my new Lizards and forgot about preditory fighter!

But you have to love an opponents eye when he see big plastic dinosaurs running rampage across the table. I played a 2 Carnasaur list, I don't think it is the most competative, but it is a lot of monster.

OK, Fritz, here is the rules question of the day: (we should start a blog)
A Unit of dwaves is panicked by a terror causing monster. They get away by an inch, but are then charged from the other direction by Ripperdactlys. They flee again, back into the the original monster. The Rippers charge is greater than the distance the dwarves run. However, the overtaking point is somewhere in the middle of the monster.

Is the proper way to address this to move the dwarves one inch past the monster, then remove them, and place the rippers one inch past the monster because two things can not occupy the same space?
Or are the dwarves caught and removed, and the rippers are placed one inch in front of the monster because the rippers can not run through their own models?
Or do the Dwarves get away, because the rippers can not run through their own models and the flee distance plus the monster length is more than the total charge distance?

Discuss.

[Fritz]

OK, Fritz, here is the rules question of the day: (we should start a blog)
A Unit of dwaves is panicked by a terror causing monster. They get away by an inch, but are then charged from the other direction by Ripperdactlys. They flee again, back into the the original monster. The Rippers charge is greater than the distance the dwarves run. However, the overtaking point is somewhere in the middle of the monster.

Is the proper way to address this to move the dwarves one inch past the monster, then remove them, and place the rippers one inch past the monster because two things can not occupy the same space?
Or are the dwarves caught and removed, and the rippers are placed one inch in front of the monster because the rippers can not run through their own models?
Or do the Dwarves get away, because the rippers can not run through their own models and the flee distance plus the monster length is more than the total charge distance?
Discuss.

It kind of sounds like this was all in the same charge phase. If so, it falls under the multi-unit charge rules. You don't flee from one and then flee from the other. There should have been only one flee roll and the Dwarfs would flee in whatever direction takes them away from BOTH chargers. Yes, the terror causer is what is causing the flee response, but all the terror rule says is you are forced to make a flee reaction. Once they fail that terror check it becomes like any other flee reaction.

[MorGrendel]

Wow, that's not how I read the rules at all. I do not recall rule even similar to "flee in whatever direction takes them away from BOTH chargers" in this edition. I guessing you need some rest.