AA County House Rules for WFB v8

[Berserker]

Yes, you have one unit, which you can get multiple times, that has a 4+ ward save. I'd say to allow you a ward save on those spells gives you a significant advantage.

Ogres have access to death, but Purple Sun testing against initiative doesn't scare me in the slightest.

So let's give you an even bigger advantage by allowing you a ward saves on top of that.. Even with your high initiative, plowing through 30 elves will still kill 5 on average. With a ward save, maybe no kills at all.

I generally don't use vortex spells because they are too risky (due to the chance to hit me instead). But I can certainly use them. Why would I agree to gimp myself, while giving you an advantage? What do I get in return?

As for magic resistance, it doesn't currently work against those "test or die" spells. Only works against spells that cause wounds, not spells that remove models from play. Are you saying you want to change that to allow it to work against all magic spells all the time (like crack's call)? If you do, suddenly my army becomes OP. I field few units by design (or just two if I want a bunker army), which I can give now high magic resistance to everything. Magic phase gone. That's imbalanced too.

Besides, I am really resistant to changing rules. I've written about this earlier in the post. I don't like adding rules if we don't have to.

[Titus]

You can't give high magic resistance to everything. There is a MR(1), MR(2), and a MR(3) item in the BRB book. You have to pay a ton of points for them. Thus preventing you from spending your magic item limit on other magic items, thus making the usefulness of the character even less since they can't take kill magic weapons or stay alive magic armor, or a ward save, since they spent their allotment on MR.

Now Bretonians get MR with their castors. It is supposed to be one of the Shticks of the army. Now this MR(1) is worthless? MR is absolutely worthless. It used to give the unit an extra dispel die if it was cast at the unit, now they get to only increase their ward save maybe 1/3 of the time if it is a spell that causes wounds. Yeah, MR need to be expanded to work against all spells that cause you to die. I am fine with it not working against Hex and Augment, but it needs to work on all.

[Berserker]

I disagree. I think if MR works against all spells, it will make the magic phase worthless. MR is not supposed to be the counter to magic by itself. You already have dispel scrolls (and other types of dispels enhancers), miscasts, winds of magic, actual dispel dice, and high point costs for wizard levels if you want a good magic phase. MR is just one other item that can help you against magic. If MR saved against all spells that can cause any type of damage/death, then you need a counter for it. Else, you get OP units that are invulnerable to magic.

Yes, you can't give MR3 to everyone, but you can pretty much give MR of some level to everyone. Remember that some armies have units (sometimes multiple, or entire army wide) already with ward saves, so those units don't need MR at all.

15 points for MR1 for an entire unit as big as you want to make it is very cheap in my opinion.

Even a 6+ ward save is very powerful if it can save against anything. A ward save can't be mitigated. It always saves. That's far better then an armor save, or high toughness or anything else. It's power. And you get one MR3, one MR2, and 3 MR1 choices (spellshield, banner and talisman). Ogres get an extra MR2 item. Perhaps other armies get more as well, I don't know. You mentioned Bretonians getting free MR1 for all their spellcasters. A 6+ ward save (stacked with the 6+/5+ ward save your entire army gets) suddenly is not so worthless afterall.

[Fritz]

Magic Resistance adds to ward saves, that's all we're was saying. We're not saying you now get a ward save against hexes or anything like that. We're saying that when a spell causes damage, you actually get a ward save. This would not cause a huge change in anything. I'm literally talking about maybe 6 spells tops. Dweller's Below, Pit of Shades, Purple Sun, Penumbral Pendulum, Dreaded Thirteenth, and Crack's Call are the only ones I can think of. More recent spells of those types, such as Curse of the Bad Moon, Black Horror, and Plague Wind, all allow ward saves. Other spells that used to be like that, such as Infernal Gateway, have been redone in new books to get rid of the 'you die with no saves at all' type effects.

By allowing ward saves against spells like purple sun or pit of shades it allows magic resistance to actually be used against those spells. As I've said, this is no skin off my back. I'm never on the receiving end of these spells and the only one I fear (out of the rulebook anyway) is Dweller's Below. If you want to keep eating those spells with no protection, that's fine by me. I'm seriously just trying to make things a little more even. When I play Jason and his Curse of the Bad Moon allows a ward save, but my Pit of Shades or Dweller's Below doesn't, I feel like I'm cheating.

I also feel like we'd just be getting ahead of the curve. The next edition of the game is supposedly coming up early to mid next year. All you have to do is look at the trends in the army books. The latest 'test or die spells' are allowing ward saves. When the base rulebook is re-done I can guarantee you any 'test or die' spells will allow ward saves. Obviously we can just wait for that book (I wonder what the OP lore of this edition will be!), but I was offering an alternative stop gap to even things out.

[Berserker]

I still don't like changing the rules, but if you all vote to do it, I'll go along with it. I would like to hear what others have to say on this as well (jeff, clayson, etc).

[MorGrendel]

13th is a 25 to cast, equating to a large chance of miscasting. If my opponent manages to save the few precious conversions I make, I'd feel cheated. MR would be better if it just added to casting value. 25 + 3 on 6 dice, good luck with that.

I wish all these big spells keyed off more that just iniative. In the old days, they mimiced dragon's breath, and so each attacked a different characteristic.

[Fritz]

So you would rather magic resistance 1 pushed it 3 points higher and make it even harder to cast an already hard to cast spell, but a 6+ ward save is a no no? Well this is clearly an unwelcome idea, so I'll just shutter it.

I'm amazed there haven't been any rumors of a new Skaven book as it's home to all kinds of out of date mechanisms, but Bretonnians, Dwarfs, and Wood Elves should have dibs. I'm shocked that Wood Elves are actually on the radar now. Something like April or May 14. Dwarfs are rumored to be January or February. I'm totally amazed at this new GW release pace.

[MorGrendel]

Wow, me too. A WE book - which of us has dibs :)

[MorGrendel]

So you would rather magic resistance 1 pushed it 3 points higher and make it even harder to cast an already hard to cast spell, but a 6+ ward save is a no no? Well this is clearly an unwelcome idea, so I'll just shutter it.

MR 1 = +1, MR 3 = +3. But that was the old way, not the current way. I am niether for or against.

Earlier I posted as an advocate of my Skaven Clan, and since then I have had nothing but grief from my Slann overlords. I just can't win. Knock it off Zlaaq! God there is nothing worse than a pouty Stegadon.

Were you only speaking to MR, or did you mean all ward saves?

[Fritz]

I was speaking all ward saves since that's what the trend has been.

[Titus]

The old magic resistance used to give you +1 dispel die if the unit had MR1, etc etc. That is how the bretonnian army is designed. They have not gotten a new book yet so it is a handicap that the army deals with.