Warhammer Romans

[Fritz]

Those of you familiar with some of the older maps of the Warhammer World know that there is a city labeled "Remas" located roughly where Rome would be. Back when the first Rome: Total War came out, I came up with an army book based on the premise of Remus instead of Romulus winning the fight for naming the city. Between Pennsic, the influx of new Army Books of late, and the coming release of Rome 2: Total War, I've been inspired to update the project. The goal is to reflect a primarily Republican Roman feel, while still having some of the Imperial era flavor. Right now I'm having somewhat of a hard time coming up with the sheer number of unit choices that have been typical of the 8th edition books. Here's the choices I have thus far with a bare bones description (some of it may or may not make sense based on the fluff I've tailored to the Warhammer World)

Lord Choices
Legate- level 3 wizard
Primus Pilus- fighty lord with stubborn

Hero Choices
Tribune- level 2 wizard
Centurio Pilus- fighty hero with stubborn
Vestal Virgin- level 1 wizard with set spell plus inspirational aura

Core
Hastati-Crappiest infantry while still being decently armored
Princepes-Line infantry with decent armor
Auxillary Archers-Yay shooty bits
Lanciarii Skirmishers-Yay skirmishers

Special
Lanciarii Cavalry-Fast Cav
Legionary Cavalry-Medium Cavalry. Only have Spears and a 3+ armor save but are dirt cheap compared to most other cav out there
Triarii- Stubborn spearmen
Gallic Allies- Frenzied Greatswords with zero armor
Ballista-bolt thrower
War Elephant-Monster, still debating exact S and T profiles. Thinking 5 and 5 since an elephant isn't all the tough compared to the crazy shit of the Warhammer World. Looking to do something similar to the "earth shattering charge" from the Ogre Mammoth. Probably will be fairly cheap compared to other monsters.

Rare
Onager- stone thrower
Praetorian Guard-Hard Core Infantry with a special movement rule
Cataphractii- Thinking of making them an 'anti-cav' heavy cavalry. Still debating 1+ vs 2+ save. The Lorica Squamata and chainmail put together I think might be enough to justify being equivalent to full plate.

That gives me 2 Lords, 3 Heroes, 4 Core, 6 Special, and 3 Rare choices. I'm going for a heavily armored infantry centric feel. I want them to be able to fight toe to toe in close combat armies, but win through maneuver and stubborn determination rather than brute strength. There are tons of rules that will be forthcoming that I hope with convey that. For now, however, I'm looking to see what you think about just the selection. Is there enough variety, or is it just infantry upon infantry with little flavor?

The Cataphractii and the War Elephants are the newest ideas I've had. Rome used elephants for a short period after the Punnic Wars, but largely stopped by the first century BC because of their unreliability. I figured in this era of monster-hammer I needed to throw something in there and the elephant made the most sense. The Cataphractii are much more of a later Roman thing, first appearing around the mid 3rd century AD. I was reluctant to give them heavy cavalry, as Roman armies were all about heavy infantry while the cavalry was mainly used to run down fleeing opponents or just cause panic in the back ranks. However, I think by relegating them to the rare section and making them good at killing higher armored targets gives them a good role that isn't out of character with the rest of the army.

What I'm lacking that most army books now-a-days have is a good selection of special characters. I figure I might as well point them in there, but I'm still brainstorming what historical figures to throw in there. Caesar is the most obvious, while Pompey is another good choice that I think I can work with. What about some of the Roman Emperors? Marcus Aurelius seems like a good candidate for higher wizard. Any other ideas out there?

[MorGrendel]

I love alternate lists.

With three types of Cav, I don't think it will be all Infantry. I figure must generals will find a way to stick them all in there.
I don't mind the stubborn, but it should be tied to the eagle banner, and so units that lose their banner (or flee) lose Stubborn.

You could add Veletites. Perhaps one uses slings while the other javelins, or one skirmishes and the other has vangaurd.

I think all Inf units could have a Veteran Upgrade, perhaps + 1 WS.

If you do characters, they could be:
Sulla: Hastati cheaper, fleeing units damaged/destroyed
Scipio Africanus: War elephants increase number
Marcus Furius Camillus: Hatred. Does not hire gauls. Wizard (Learned magic while in exile)
Agrippa: Unit of infiltrators. Lucky.
Mark Antony and Cleopatra: Egyptian archers and Antony cav upgrade.
Stilicho: Mercenaries cheap, Legionary Cavalry, Triarii, Praetorian more expensive. Beast Magic.
Marius: High leadership, large bubble, Panaquin maybe
Horatius: Hero, good fighter, similar to Cretch's escape rule.
Julius Caesar: Super badass

[Fritz]

My main worry about the cavalry is actually finding a place for the Legionary Cavalry. Quite frankly, they suck, but that's part of being Roman. My worry is that by putting Cataphractii in there, even in a rare slot, would mean Legionary Cavalry are never used. I think it will depend on the point cost, which I'm thinking should be about 17. That makes them dirt cheap compared to other cavalry (5 points less than Empire Kinghts), but with only S4 on the charge and a 3+ armor save.

I feel like having two versions of light troops might be a little hard to distinguish, but having slings as an option might not be a bad way to go. Maybe slings and vanguard might be enough to distinguish them from javelins and scouting.

The Veteran status is reflected by the progression of from Hastati, to Princepes, to Triarii. As a republican legionary gained experience, he was moved into those ranks. An upgrade is unnecessary. If you want cheap inexperienced troops you take Hastati. If you want more experienced, more expensive troops you take Princepes. They're both core, so you have the choice right there.

Scipio Africanus is a good one. However, he would be kind of the opposite of what you're thinking. He was most famous for defeating elephants, not using them. I can see him making one unit of something (maybe Principes?) into monster hunters.

Agrippa is one of my favorites just for the fact that he's so often overlooked (I can't believe I forgot him too...), so he's definitely in. Horatius is another good one. I don't really care to add Antony and Cleopatra simply because it won't fit well into the narrative.

So here's what I'm thinking (probably with slightly altered names):
Lords
Julius Caesar- only Ld 10 general available to the army, other super crazy rules
Scipio Africanus- Monster hunter. Lore of Beasts seems both appropriate and inappropriate at the same time. He just might be stuck with the basic lore I've done up for the army.
Marcus Aurelius- Best caster available. I think I'll make him the philosopher he wanted to be rather than the ruler he was.
Lucius Vorenus (yeah I went there)- Lord level Centurion special character. We just have too many damned nobles.

Heroes
Titus Pullo (yup, him too)- some kind of challenge fighter, killing blow could be good
Horatius- I'm thinking battle standard bearer with some kind of rule to reflect his stubborn refusal to give ground. Yeah, he probably should have some kind of escape rule, but the jumping off the bridge at the last moment part of the story isn't really what's emphasized from the Roman point of view.
Agrippa- I'll figure something out. I'm thinking of reflecting him as a young up and comer, hence why he's down in the hero section. His talent for excellent planning and clever maneuver should be the focus, but I'm unsure how to translate that onto the tabletop at the moment.

[Fritz]

I've got a working draft that has everything except for some of the minor pages (introduction, table of contents) and the special characters. It should give you a rough idea of where I've gone with this madness. The file is too big to post here, so let me know if you want a copy and I'll email it to you.

[Fritz]

The completed first draft:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5iARuQ ... sp=sharing

[Fritz]

No comments? Is the link working?

[Titus]

Have not had the time to sit and read it yet.

[Berserker]

I like how you did the book. It looks very pretty. I love the graphics too. It looks like a finished book. GW should be gealous.

Question: The counter charge. You mentioned a unit declares the counter charge on the unit that is charging his buddy. But you also mention that the counter charge happens after the opponent completes all of his charges. What if the enemy does multiple charges, and now you can't counter charge the unit you mentioned you wanted to, because there is another unit in the way? How does that get resolved? Or do you simply get to counter charge wahtever you want to counter charge if you have units available after the enemy charges complete?

I like the idea of the free reform when being charged for the praetorian guard. However, i would not make it free. I would make them pass a leadership test. No matter how good you are, there should be a chance that you can sometimes get surprised. This game is about odds and randomness, not about certainty. They are very high leadership so likely they will pass most of the time, but they should still have that chance of failure.

Your nobles are entirely too skilled with weapons. You specifically say they are not soldiers but politicians yet they have Str 4, T4, WS5, Initiative 5 and 3 attacks and heavy armor and access to any kind of armor! I understand the armor since they can buy anything, but that's a very skilled soldier, not a politician. I think you should lower those stats, a lot. I mean think of Obama or Boehner. That's who these guys are. Do you really think Obama can actually shoot a gun even as good as a private? He's a politician. In Warhammer terms, the Lvl 3 Battle Wizard Lord (165pt) of the empire still only has WS 3, BS 3 and St 3, 1 attack and initiative 3, with no access to armor.

The war elephant. It has D6+1 impact hits on a charge, but it also gets to use his attacks in the same round. That may be too powerful. Think of the Ogre Stonehorn. If it charges it does impact hits, but is not allowed to also use his attacks that round. The crew fights as normal. Most other monsters don't get impact hits at all. Impact hits are a very powerful tool.

Some ideas:
I love the idea of having some naked celts runing around with woad painted all over them. So the gauls are celts. Celts had that unorganized naked charge that frightened and broke units on the charge.. Romans generally mowed them up quite well (thinking to the anglessey choice song every pennsic ;), but nontheless they weer quite effective

How about giving them some bonus for the turn they charge (only if they charge). Maybe extra strength (like the orc choppas). Or maybe make it easier for them to charge. So maybe the first charge of the game, they get an extra D6 inches to their charge. Or maybe they cause fear on the charge, but not subsequent turns. Something to show expose this naked charge aspect. I don't know if I like frenzy because frenzy lasts the entire battle, while celts tended to die in droves if they didn't break the army they charged on the charge. I do like the ward save. That's a nice magic touch due to their paints. How about add some gaul shamans in there somehow. They did a lot of blood sacrifice. Maybe sacrifice some gauls for extra abilities for a turn.


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More to come. I haven't read the special characters or the magic stuff yet. Very good book so far.

[Fritz]

Question: The counter charge. You mentioned a unit declares the counter charge on the unit that is charging his buddy. But you also mention that the counter charge happens after the opponent completes all of his charges. What if the enemy does multiple charges, and now you can't counter charge the unit you mentioned you wanted to, because there is another unit in the way? How does that get resolved? Or do you simply get to counter charge wahtever you want to counter charge if you have units available after the enemy charges complete?

I pretty much copied over the Empire detachment rule but replaced some nouns. It is the latter option. You just counter-charge with whatever is left.

I like the idea of the free reform when being charged for the praetorian guard. However, i would not make it free. I would make them pass a leadership test. No matter how good you are, there should be a chance that you can sometimes get surprised. This game is about odds and randomness, not about certainty. They are very high leadership so likely they will pass most of the time, but they should still have that chance of failure.

I was debating that. Consider it done.

Your nobles are entirely too skilled with weapons. You specifically say they are not soldiers but politicians yet they have Str 4, T4, WS5, Initiative 5 and 3 attacks and heavy armor and access to any kind of armor! I understand the armor since they can buy anything, but that's a very skilled soldier, not a politician. I think you should lower those stats, a lot. I mean think of Obama or Boehner. That's who these guys are. Do you really think Obama can actually shoot a gun even as good as a private? He's a politician. In Warhammer terms, the Lvl 3 Battle Wizard Lord (165pt) of the empire still only has WS 3, BS 3 and St 3, 1 attack and initiative 3, with no access to armor.

Perhaps I went to far toward describing them as poor military leaders and magicians. I wanted them first and foremost to be Roman nobles. That means armor and that means at least passable fighting skills. Roman nobility defined itself with the same values as the rest of the city, so weak little wizards would just be too un-Roman. Roman men were supposed to be strong and tough. As such, the comparison to modern day politicians is not really relevant. What I wanted is an in between. I wanted a moderate fighter and a moderate wizard. You'll notice that a Level 3 Legate costs 15 points more than that Level 3 Battle Wizard and can't get to level 4. That's intentional. I wanted warrior wizards leading the army. Just because you can fight, though, doesn't necessary mean you're any good at leading.

The war elephant. It has D6+1 impact hits on a charge, but it also gets to use his attacks in the same round. That may be too powerful. Think of the Ogre Stonehorn. If it charges it does impact hits, but is not allowed to also use his attacks that round. The crew fights as normal. Most other monsters don't get impact hits at all. Impact hits are a very powerful tool.

I'm afraid that's pretty much how I want it (for now). At Strength 5 it's not all that bad. The bump to the Stonehorn's Strength 6 makes quite a difference. Keep in mind, it also has a chance to run amok through friendly units when it gets shot and still costs 170 while only being Leadership 7. Oh and you clearly have forgotten about Jeff's damned Hellpits.

I love the idea of having some naked celts runing around with woad painted all over them. So the gauls are celts. Celts had that unorganized naked charge that frightened and broke units on the charge.. Romans generally mowed them up quite well (thinking to the anglessey choice song every pennsic ;), but nontheless they weer quite effective

How about giving them some bonus for the turn they charge (only if they charge). Maybe extra strength (like the orc choppas). Or maybe make it easier for them to charge. So maybe the first charge of the game, they get an extra D6 inches to their charge. Or maybe they cause fear on the charge, but not subsequent turns. Something to show expose this naked charge aspect. I don't know if I like frenzy because frenzy lasts the entire battle, while celts tended to die in droves if they didn't break the army they charged on the charge. I do like the ward save. That's a nice magic touch due to their paints. How about add some gaul shamans in there somehow. They did a lot of blood sacrifice. Maybe sacrifice some gauls for extra abilities for a turn.

The frenzy rule pretty well reflects the momentum of a celtic charge, since they lose the bonus as soon as they lose combat. That said, a sacrifice ala Flagellants might be worth considering. I have also been tempted to add a Vercingetorix special character for the Gauls. That could be something he can bring to the table.

More to come. I haven't read the special characters or the magic stuff yet. Very good book so far.

The special characters are really just there for flavor. I haven't made much effort to balance them yet. I'm working on the vanilla stuff first. The magic items are where I think I need the most help. I came up with some pretty off the wall ideas (have a look at the consul's pillar) that might need some significant tuning. I'm about to head to Jason's house to give this a first look on a battlefield.

[Berserker]

You'll notice that a Level 3 Legate costs 15 points more than that Level 3 Battle Wizard and can't get to level 4. That's intentional. I wanted warrior wizards leading the army. Just because you can fight, though, doesn't necessary mean you're any good at leading.

I understand what you're saying, but they are too cheap then. For an extra 15 points, they get heavy armor (and any other choice of armor), +1STR, +1T, +2 IN, and +2 Attacks, +1 BS, +2 WS. They are both a level 3 wizards at this point. Sure, hecan't purchase the lvl 4 wizard, but gets for free the effects of the Staff of Sorcery item (+1 dispell -- 35pt item), and is still able to get another arcane item. The nobles are way superior.

Remember that the empire wizard needs to spend an extra 35 points to get to lvl 4. If he doesn't get the lvl 4 upgrade, then they are inferior when they cast spells since the noble is a lvl 4 effective wizard for dispells.

I'm afraid that's pretty much how I want it (for now). At Strength 5 it's not all that bad. The bump to the Stonehorn's Strength 6 makes quite a difference. Keep in mind, it also has a chance to run amok through friendly units when it gets shot and still costs 170 while only being Leadership 7. Oh and you clearly have forgotten about Jeff's damned Hellpits.

Ok, I see your point. The fact that shooting can make it run away and trample your own troops does give it a significant disadvantage (although mitigated by general + banner since it's still only on a failed leadership). And Str5 is still very good. Str6 is better, but not that much better. My stonehorn is 250pts. We'll see how effective he is in game play. But keep an eye on him. He may still be OP yet ;)

Btw, does your elephant thunderstomp? Most monsters do, but I didn't see that in your book.

I'm about to head to Jason's house to give this a first look on a battlefield.

Cool. Post how the battle went!

[Fritz]

I understand what you're saying, but they are too cheap then. For an extra 15 points, they get heavy armor (and any other choice of armor), +1STR, +1T, +2 IN, and +2 Attacks, +1 BS, +2 WS. They are both a level 3 wizards at this point. Sure, hecan't purchase the lvl 4 wizard, but gets for free the effects of the Staff of Sorcery item (+1 dispell -- 35pt item), and is still able to get another arcane item. The nobles are way superior.

The toughness is actually the same between the two characters, but on a second look you are correct that it is probably too much. I'm not counting the +1 to dispel against them because it is combined with the very negative rule forcing a Ld7 or Ld8 character to be the general. That's a significant handicap. However, I've brought the Legate and Tribune down 1 point of WS, BS, and I and bumped their points up by 10. That puts them around 20-25 points more than an equivalent wizard of their level. Does that seem about right?

Ok, I see your point. The fact that shooting can make it run away and trample your own troops does give it a significant disadvantage (although mitigated by general + banner since it's still only on a failed leadership). And Str5 is still very good. Str6 is better, but not that much better. My stonehorn is 250pts. We'll see how effective he is in game play. But keep an eye on him. He may still be OP yet ;)

Your Stonehorn also kinda sucks for 250 points. The first thing we'll try if he is OP is reducing his attacks by 1 and then taking the +1 away from the impact hits, the idea being that I would prefer him to hit hard on the charge and be somewhat of a chump after. And yes, he has thunderstomp. That's covered under the "monster" unit type.

Cool. Post how the battle went!

As I feared, my attempts at getting the Core units as cheap as I wanted them while trying to distinguish between Hastati and Principes resulted in both being about 1 point too cheap. I just can't distinguish enough between them to justify a separate entry. Instead, I'm leaning toward re-doing the legionnaires entirely. Right now I have an early Republican line up with Hastati, Principes, and Triarii along side post-Marian organization. I'm thinking of making Lanciarii closer to what they were historically (lightly armored levy spearmen), just making a single core unit of Legionnaires, and abandoning Triarii in favor of Evocatii (veterans who have re-enlisted). The current Lanciarii would become Velites and Numidian Cavalry.

In addition, Triarii at WS 5 with all those attacks was also way too much even for the cost. The Legio IV banner was too powerful by far. One thing we were never able to test out was the Consul's Pillar, which never got used. I'm doing a pretty heavy re-write, so expect fairly different book with the next revision.

[Fritz]

A new version is up with some pretty heavy edits that came out of Jason and I's game and Serban's suggestions. You can use the same link as before as Google Drive allows me to just update the same location as much as I want. I'm also adding in some more background and a timeline, so please bare with me as I fill in that section. The big take aways for this latest version:

Senior Centurions (as well as centurion special characters) are no longer stubborn. Iron Discipline no longer confers Immune to Psychology. Their cost has been adjusted accordingly. I went a little too far in trying to make these guys the center of the army. They were bringing a ton to the table and I would have had to further increase their already considerable cost. I realized that I should just confine the stubborn to the veteran units and have these guys just be good fighters and leadership bubbles.

Increased cost and decreased stat line for Legates and Tribunes (some special characters edited for the same reason). Per Serban's suggestion

Hastati are gone and replaced with Lanciarii (cheap shitty spearmen). Principes have been renamed to Legionnaires and now have light armor instead of heavy armor. Same points. Lanciarii Skirmishers have been renamed Velites and reduced in cost by 1 point. These changes were all discussed earlier. I needed to make a bigger distinction between the units, and I didn't think I could do that by having Hastati and Principes

Triarii removed and replaced with Evocati (Same statline except WS4, Heavy Armor, Scutum, Pilum, and Stubborn for 12 points). Praetorians now require a leadership test for drilled, have had their stat line adjusted, and are now stubborn (13 points). Cataphractii now stubborn. Points increase to 29. It would be Roman without some stubborn. These guys are supposed to be the hard core veterans, so it made sense to move the stubborn from the centurions to these units.

Removed 5+ ward save from Standard of Legio IV and replaced with Magic Resistance (3). Considerably changed the Lore of the Gods. These needed some re-tweaking after the game with Jason. Both were just too good.

Finally, I'm also considering changing the Centurions in some way. Because Manipular Formation is linked to the Centurions, it makes more sense to make the cost of the rule reflected in the Centurion rather than the unit itself.

[Berserker]

I am reading portions at the time so here are a few more comments based on what I saw. I will add more as I get there. The stats are much better now on the nobles.

You mentioned how gimped your generals are for having low leadership. That may be a valid point in another army, but not yours. You have senior centurions which are leadership 10 (or 9 for the weaker version) and they can confer that leadership to any unit within 6". You can have multiple of them. That is huuuuge! Not only does that make your units high leadership, it also allows you to split up your army and deploy any way you want and still keep that leadership. Stuff like the elephant's leadership roll, or the reform before charge is suddenly not a big deal, especially if you throw in a BSB. Those flanks that most armies have low leadership pieces on, you don't have to. So basically, the weakness of your general is very easily mitigated in your army.

Your velites cannot be core. No other army has core scouts. That is a really big advantage. Unlimited scouts. You should never have core scouts. Make them special.

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Now, lets take a look at spells:

Minerva's Aegis. Your spells does -1 STR cast on a 6+, bubble on 12+ with an 18" radius and it's signature so you can have it multiple times. That's too powerful and your range is too big. My ogres spell of +1STR is cast on 7+, and bubble 12" radius at 14+.

Mercury's swiftness is like the orc spell Hand of Gork. Hand of Gork is cast on 9+ and moves a unit 3D6" (that's a random 3"-18" range). On a 14+ it's 5D6 (that's a random 5"-30" range). Notice the random element in it. Your spell is cast on a 7+, and moves a guaranteed 10". On a 14+, it moves a guaranteed 20". Guaranteed movement is always better then random movement. That is big advantage. And you cast it cheaper then the orc one.

Neptune's Gail looks good to me. That's basically Iceshard Blizzard. Might actually be a bit too weak since Iceshard also lowers Leadership by 1 and it's a signature spell.

Pluto's Call: the -1T and -1L for 7+ which can bubble 18" for 14+. That's again too cheap to cast and too big of a bubble. Ogre's version only does +1T at 8+, and can bubble 12" for 16+. Need to tone your spell down.

Wrath of Mars: I haven't decided if I like this spell or not. It's a high utility spells allowing you to deal with anything ethereal, lowering armor and allowing you to hit anything on a 5+ (or better). That's pretty strong. Stronger then +1STR, because increasing Str might still not be anough to lower the 6+ depending on what you're hitting. But this guarantees that a Str 1 unit will hit on 5+. I don't know if I like this spell, but maybe it's ok.

Jupiter's Lightning: 12+ for a 2D6 Str4 no armor saves. I think for the cost, that's ok. The comparison spell is ogre's missile which does 2D6 Str 2 no armor saves for 8+. The range is 18". Your range is 24". So for an extra 4 points of cast, you get 2 str and increased range. That sounds ok.

Appolo's Light: 16+ to stop them in their tracks and prevent any shooting. Range 18. I think that's ok as well. The cost is very high, but it has the potential to stop that charge dead in it's tracks and give you the upper hand.

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Items!

Spear of Mars: +2WS, +2 Init, +2 Str, Frenzy (+1 Attack), Hatred (reroll misses) for 65 pts. Really really strong.
---> The Ogre blade that just gives +2 Str is 40 points. The sword of frenzy is 20 points. You're combining a ton of abilities that i don't think should even be combined into a badass spear. Give it to a centurion for some uber WS9, Str6, Init 7, 5 rerollable attacks.

Jupiter's Blade: +1 Str, 2D6 Str4 automatic hits once per game for 40 points. So basically you paid 20 points for the one time 2D6 Str 4 hits. I can't think of a comparison for that, but i guess that's ok as it's a one time strike. Str 4 maybe is too strong. Maybe it should be Str3. But I don't know. Someone else should chime in.

Armor of vulcan's forge: 70 pts for 1+ Armor save and -1 to hit on the person. That's too much.
----> Armor of silvered Steel gives a 2+ armor for 45 points. Glittering Scales give -1 to hit for 25 points. That's 70 points. But the catch is that no one is able to combine those two together. You can. Combining items and giving them the combined item cost don't make the final item equal just as good. It makes the item better because it has multiple abilities for one item. When outfitting a person, you generally trade off one thing versus another (in this case armor vs how hard it is to hit you). You don't get to have both. That should be a 100 point item simply due to how hard to kill you it makes you. Or remove it all together.

Helm of Aeneas: 35 points for 5+ ward save and +1 armor. That's fine by me.

Gorgon Shield: 25 pts for a shield + giving an enemy unit in bases to base Always Strike Last. That's ridiculously overpowered. At most I would give you the guy in base to base with your character ASL (so 3 guys max). Not a unit. That is simply wrong.

Pillar: 55 pts for automatic dispell on a 4+. If failed, 1 wound to user (no saves of any kind). For the cost and the potential damage to the user i think it's ok. It allows you to stuff a magic phase when you run out of dispell dice.

Amulet of Numa: 40 points, nullifies any magic weapons of anyone in base to base contact. Seems ok.

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more later.

[MorGrendel]

Well, fuck. It ate another post. You are never getting my feedback.

Spear of Mars
OP x 100

[Berserker]

I learned that the hard way too a while back. If it takes you a long time to write something, your session might time out. So either always copy the text (CTRL+C) before you submit, or write it in notepad.