50% Lords here to stay

[Fritz]

The End Times rules for increased lord and hero allowance has now been added to the errata.

http://www.blacklibrary.com/Downloads/P ... OKv1.9.pdf

In other news, I've finished the Nagash book. Synopsis to follow. Here's the short version: shit is going crazy.

[MorGrendel]

Bah, I refuse. I hate hero-hammer.

[ahrimen]

I'm with Jeff. Hero hammer is annoying.

[Fritz]

This isn't 5th edition where a tooled out character is going to easily slaughter his equivalent amount of points in troops. Fighty characters aren't taken in many armies because they're not points efficient. Extra casters have serious diminishing returns because of the random winds of magic. The only thing this really does is let you bring a level 4 caster and a monster mounted lord. Monster mounted lords aren't seen right now for a reason. Level 4 casters are a better investment, monster mounted lords are fairly easy to bring down, and they almost never make up their points cost.

For example, a well equipped Dragon mounted Elven Prince costs around 620+ points. That's two decent sized units of White Lions or two Phoenixes and a couple bolt throwers. Plus, one good cannon shot and he's pretty dead. I don't bring Dragons because something as simple as Doom Divers pretty well maul them. I don't see that changing unless a new edition changes things up in a significant way. I say bring it on. In fact, I dare you to try maxing out 50% lords at 2500 points (ie take 1250 points in lords) against my High Elf army.

[lilscutt]

I just had a tournament this weekend and truth be told 50 lords and hero's makes for great games especially playing victory points by the warhammer rule book. I thoroughly enjoyed watching people strategies play out. Now Magic and cannons make a huge difference in this game. As long you can roll a really good artillery dice and get the right spells off lords and heros have no chance.

[Fritz]

Jeff, if your lizards aren't using a Slann with focus of mystery at this point, you're doing it wrong. Arcane Unforging is getting close to required and Slann make lore of High Magic awesome.

[lilscutt]

Yea i agree with Fritz on that one

[MorGrendel]

I haven't been running a Slann. Last time it was a double Carnasaur list. The problem with most Slann lists is they are boring to play. I'll have to write one for the new rules. Clay have you read the rules yet?

[Fritz]

I'm not entirely sure how a Slann is any more limiting than a Oldblood on a Carnosaur. Pretty much the same points. I suppose it does make you very inclined to take Temple Guard. In any case, you used to be able to just barely fit a Slann with double carnosaurs (by using two minimalist scar vets) with the 25% cap. I remember considering a monster mash lite list with Slann, two scar vet Carnosaurs, mix of saurus warrior and skink skirmisher core, Temple Guard, and two Ancient Steggies. Perfect mix of heavy infantry and monsters for my taste. Now with the 50% caps, you could go even more carnosaur crazy.

[MorGrendel]

True nuff, especially since I don't think they were Oldbloods... To me Scarvets are a steal and Old Bloods are double the points for more magic allowance. I'd rather take a special character.

[lilscutt]

The list that won the tourney was two carnasaur and a slann with skink cloud of 70. It worked but I think if you were to go steggie, with 20 block of temple guard and slann. Then 5 squads of skinks, add in another steggie or Carnasaur should be pretty powerful. Today game is about magic....

[Fritz]

It's not all about magic. Yes, a level 4 wizard and some of the big bad spells of doom are powerful. However, the winds of magic are fickle. That's why Jeff has long hated taking a Slann in this edition. That army you described has some considerable weaknesses. I'm guessing you didn't have any wood elf players worth a damn, who could shoot that army to death and while running circles around it. Empire 1+ armor spam would also do well since the skink shooting wouldn't be able to touch anything and steam tanks would annihilate the Carnosaurs very quickly. Right now the lists winning the big tournaments are ones filled with fast, hard hitting, and resilient units. Magic is part of that equation, but not the only part.

[lilscutt]

Well this was a low end tournament. With the lizardmen list I seen in my store those have been most of effective. Magic is 50% equation, one round of magic can make all difference in the game. I'm a dwarf player so trust me I know I have no magic. Now that empire list would of worked well against skinks but the two carnsaurs he had were broken unless you hit him with cannons which I actually no one had at this tournament except for me and I setup wrong.

[MorGrendel]

There are almost no ward saves and you pay out the nose for the stat line. I would say this edition of the Lizardman book is more on the nerf than broken side. Though this version was mostly just to sell new models.

Warhammer is about carnage, and that is what a two carnosaur list is. It is not a "tournament" list, but it is fun to play. Unfortunately, one cannon and you are in bad shape.

[Berserker]

Us hardcore ogres go to battle with no ward saves and little armor. The only heavily armored unit is our cat riders, but since our tribe leader is a scrooge and doesn't want to pony up the gold, he has not been able to enlist even one such cat to the army roster. Alas, we shall continue to scourge the enemy with our large boulbous guts.

We scoff at all the puny armies with they puny ward saves and puny 2+ armor saves. Ogre up and show up naked!