Vision - A Discussion Point

MorGrendel · Post by **MorGrendel** » Tue May 22, 2007 11:34 am

I was discussing with Loki on the way to train with Duke Paul Bellatrix the other nights, the young guys more or less taking over. His response was more or less that I screwed myself for being too good at what I do, that I elevated myself to mister contact guy, and there I am doomed to remain. It stuck me both, how did I get here, and why is there no one in the wings so to speak (In Galatia, Markland and the SCA). A passage occured to me, and I would like your thoughts on that passage. If you want to relate them back to the story above OK, but feel no need, as it was provided so that people would not wonder where this was coming from.

The passage was:
"Can you claim a vision beyond your fame and glory?"

MorGrendel · Post by **MorGrendel** » Tue May 22, 2007 11:36 am

I will add an anecdotal thought. "Who freed the slaves?"

If your first thought was *abeLin-coln(broken up so you would not accidental read it first), you are wrong, but proving that perception of status and sucess has an affect on the scope of vision attributed to a person and the personification of ideas and concepts. The correct answer is the Congress, but we can't name anyone on that congress.

"Who threw the first wrap shot in the SCA?" The wrap shot is not a real combat move, so someone invented it or borrowed it from some other time and place. However, I imagine that person was not a King or Duke, as then the shot would be called the Steve-O or something similar. Duke Belletrix has a whole style named after him, and Bedford has a tourney, so it stands to reason we like to name things after people, particularly pioneers.

Anyway, I just had this thought. Please add yours, and one day I may mash them all up, and write something more comprehensive.

lilkender · Post by **lilkender** » Wed May 23, 2007 10:37 am

I believe one reason Duke Paul has "the Bellatrix style" named after him is that he thought about it carefully, wrote it down, made it available on his website and via cd-rom and teaches it around the country. It's well-known, and people will likely guess from my stance and technique that I learned from him.

But you're right about the personification thing. The President is lauded/blamed for official acts during his administration, the leader of a group often held responsible for the actions of the group.

MorGrendel · Post by **MorGrendel** » Fri May 25, 2007 10:05 am

Since this has not illicited many responses, let me alter the question slightly.

How does status affect the scope of vision and imagination?

When is genius widely accepted as such?

Can one who is not a top officer offer a multi-stage battle plan?
Can an apprentice paint a masterpiece?
Can a patent clerk be the world greatest inventer?

What is that element that makes men transcend status for greatness?

Titus · Post by **Titus** » Fri May 25, 2007 11:19 am

My head hurts.

Lokki · Post by **Lokki** » Fri May 25, 2007 5:10 pm

.....you ask the ultimate question?!!? i give you the answer......42

well that is one way to put it. i beilive a person can acheve greatness or rather has achieved greatness when everyone they encounter holds there tasks and achivements in awh, wonder and in envy.

now i'm not sure where you got your dilutions of grandgor from but i was trying to emfisize to you that all i can take from what you have done to yourself is pitty. although i do stand in Awh in the amount of work you place on your self and Wonder why you do that to yourself but i will never envy the hole you have dug your self into but one thing i can do is help you.....i have a 40' extention latter at my house i can hand you so you can get out! or you can call me if you need some other help.... changing your windshield wiper blades.... fix your A/C.... tell you how to operate the Thermistat.... or someone to Respond to your post so you don't rant and rant with no reply. 8) 8) 8)

MorGrendel · Post by **MorGrendel** » Fri May 25, 2007 5:44 pm

Ummm, are you volenteering to paint my house. I am short and have already had to do the counter balance the ladder trick. Weee!

But back to the saga at hand. Not to innodate but:

Some are born for greatness, others have greatness trust upon them.

Thoughts?

Berserker · Post by **Berserker** » Sat May 26, 2007 10:56 am

Chuck Norris just punched a kid!

ahrimen · Post by **ahrimen** » Sat May 26, 2007 1:14 pm

jeff, did you just watch night at the museum? cause i just did and they say that like 50 times in the movie.

MorGrendel · Post by **MorGrendel** » Sun May 27, 2007 11:35 am

Nope, just trying to start an adult conversation. I thought we could talk about something other than asses and porn for a while.

Rachel · Post by **Rachel** » Sun May 27, 2007 2:36 pm

I know I usualy don't have to much to say, its not because I have no thoughts, but more I generaly lack the ability to say words and have people understand what I actualy mean. So if your interested in knowing what I think about these questions, good luck! These are just some thoughts and nothing definite so if I'm way off don't take offense..

MorGrendel wrote: How does status affect the scope of vision and imagination?

When is genius widely accepted as such?

I think this is related to clear communication. A beginner can be a genius without acceptance as such, and an accepted genius accepted through reputation may be followed without question though through time they have lost their edge. A general knowing they will be followed may be more afraid to try something imaganative because they have rep to lose. A beginner has only up to go and if a bold plan fails they have lost nothing. Knowledge of what has always worked before may become an imbreakable pattern with definite limits.

But as for communication vision and status; a person of known skill only must communicate what is to be done, for those around know to follow and it will be for the best of all. One who is unproven may have the best of idea, and tell what is needed to be done, but to be followed they must also be able to explain why they think their plan will work.

It is far harder to explain to any one person let alone a group of people how any conclusion has been reached then what to do, even more so when time is of the essence. This is when status and being accepted as genius is neccisary.

Things are further compounded when part of being skilled involves an arcane vocabulary that beginners are not farmiliar with, so when experianced people give plans it is not understood and when beginners try to explain vision they are not taken seriously becasue they use more common discriptive terms instead of the vocabulary of the skilled "in group" as it is. Not that I myselft have noticed too much of this in this particular activity. Then again, if I don't know what words mean I ask.

Hard won reputation is neccesary for consistant victory because their is not always time to evaluate the vision of just anyone and examine the validity of their thought process, even if they do manage to acuratly communicate why they think one course of action is best.

MorGrendel wrote: Can one who is not a top officer offer a multi-stage battle plan?

Anyone who is bold enough can offer what they will. They only risk criticism and failure weighed against glory and victory. Someone who is not a top officer may feel the greatest need to offer a multi-stage battle plan not to gain personal glory but only when they truly belive they have a good plan that would serve the best interest of those they fight with were it to be followed. To get people to follow the plan of any one person is hard, but that is what a good leader does. Driven by an excelent vision one of low rank may risk leadership becasue if they didn't a less excelent plan would be executed to a less satisfying end.

MorGrendel wrote: What is that element that makes men transcend status for greatness?

Neccesity. One theory is that those who are naturaly the best leaders will chose to lead because it is that or be led by someone less suited to the job, (I can't remember whos theory if I hadto Ii could look it up) which would mean following direction one knows is not best.

hypo · Post by **hypo** » Wed May 30, 2007 11:59 am

I have thought on this for a few days and here are a few of my comments!

His response was more or less that I screwed myself for being too good at what I do, that I elevated myself to mister contact guy, and there I am doomed to remain. It stuck me both, how did I get here, and why is there no one in the wings so to speak (In Galatia, Markland and the SCA).

I think it has nothing to do with you; it has to do more with the people that have joined the group. No one currently see it to be as important as you to be the Leader of the group. Everyone agrees that there is a necessity to have a PR rep for the group a go to guy in the group that everyone can ask, "So what is the plan?"

That being said, I can see it being hard on you because you feel that you have to make the plan and a lot of the time you take project on as your own of fear, JUSTIFIED FEAR, that they will never get done. What you need more than anything in a group is a Motivator and an Idea-Man. They don't have to be the same person, and most cases it is too difficult to be the same person. The Idea-Man comes up with the plan(s) and the Motivator is the one to get the plan to come to life by getting it to be a Group Idea. In our group every Citizen needs to be the Motivator and the Idea-Man, but we have all become too busy with LIFE that it has become 3rd,4th,5th tier priority. Then we as a group pushing the responsibility on one sometimes two people.

So.....What can we do as a group to motivate the members to work on projects and take more of a Leadership (Citizen) role in the group?

Plain and simple we need to sit down with each member Citizen & Non-Citizen and work out what interest them and what they can do to make our group better. We need to use our group motivator's Dan, Scutt, & Kevin and get them under the newbs to get that fire burning.

As far as someone to take the reins... Someone will step up if you have had enough, but not because they want it but because they know it needs to be done.

More to come on your other statements and questions…

hypo · Post by **hypo** » Wed May 30, 2007 12:23 pm

The passage was:
"Can you claim a vision beyond your fame and glory?"

Who cares? I may be the only one in the world that really doesn't care if somebody remembers my name or what I did, but I don't. All I care about is that the ones closest to me remember me and what I have done for or with them. Who cares, if I have a fighting style named after me? Who cares, if I have a war named after me? You can spend all your life fighting to be remembered and accomplish nothing or you can live for yourself & loved ones; I feel that can be WAY more rewarding. When we stop (being as active in Galatia), It will no longer be our VISION it will be others and it is not right to impose our beliefs, our ceromonies, our love of Frat fighting, on them if they don't agree. The only way a group like ours can survive is to roll with the punches (except change) and instill our Values. Honor / Unity / Service / Humility. All of these Values should be the values of Galatians for Galatia.

More still to come...